avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapters

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mike m.
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby mike m. » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:44 pm

[quote="ostarella"][quote="mike m."]ostarella has never been published[/quote]

You have never published any fiction either. Just being clear.[/quote]
=======

totally irrelevant
logical fallacy diversion

i have been PAID AND PUBLISHED in national publications as well as doing writing for my job full time
you otoh have zero credentials

no real difference between fiction and non fiction except for
NF you research what you use to write about
and fiction you create what you use to write about

there are hundreds of books by successful professionals that TEACH methods similar to what i propose
there are zero books showing HOW to pantsit organickit or anything similar

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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby ostarella » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:35 pm

[quote="mike m."][quote="ostarella"][quote="mike m."]ostarella has never been published[/quote]

You have never published any fiction either. Just being clear.[/quote]
=======

totally irrelevant
logical fallacy diversion[/quote]

I somehow knew that's what you would say. Ah well - carry on all.

mike m.
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby mike m. » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:47 pm

[quote="ostarella"][quote="mike m."][quote="ostarella"][quote="mike m."]ostarella has never been published[/quote]

You have never published any fiction either. Just being clear.[/quote]
=======

totally irrelevant
logical fallacy diversion[/quote]
--------------

I somehow knew that's what you would say. Ah well - carry on all.[/quote]
============

of course i would demolish any logical fallacies that divert attention from the truth

i have credentials
you have nothing
end of story

all you have are assertions that your method works for you
and the fact that you cant explain how we could teach it to anyone else

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ostarella
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby ostarella » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:56 pm

Yeah, that and that list of very successful published authors who are pantsers - the one you keep ignoring along with the myriad times our various methods have been explained to you.

Carry on.

mike m.
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby mike m. » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:12 pm

[quote="ostarella"]Yeah, that and that list of very successful published authors who are pantsers - the one you keep ignoring along with the myriad times our various methods have been explained to you.

Carry on.[/quote]


========

a very small minority
and only prove that most successful professionals plan

nobody has explained anything about HOW you do it
all you do is keep saying that you somehow with your magical powers do do it

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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby ostarella » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:23 am

[quote="mike m."]nobody has explained anything about HOW you do it
all you do is keep saying that you somehow with your magical powers do do it[/quote]

Well, yeah, you've been told over and over and over and over and over again.

Broken record time. Adios.

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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby Lbeauchesne » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:02 am

I have explained how I write, mike. You ignored the post. It was a while ago, now.
I likened my writing process to basic horse riding: leg to hand. Everything comes from that. When I'm writing, the only difference is that my brain and thought processes are my "legs" the ideas and story are the horse. My hands do the same as when I'm riding. They shape the story, provide somewhere for it to go.
I'll break it down a bit more for you and use riding instead: When riding a dressage test, there are changes of pace and within pace. The horse doesn't know what it's meant to do at a marker point until the rider tells it. If I want half-pass, that information comes from the legs to go sideways. The hands of the rider are merely, to help keep the horse correct.
So, sticking with the equestrian theme. From a laypersons point of view, the 2 different ways of writing are like an Olympic dressage competition. Planning/outlining is like the first 2 tests, the Grand Prix and Grand Prix Special: Every movement is already written out and predetermined. On the other hand, pantsing can be likened (to the casual observer) to the freestyle or Kur: There are movements that have to be performed (lets call them the basic requirements of a story) but there is no outline, the rider decides which movements are performed at each point of the test.
The finished product of both are a test. How well comes down to the skill of the individual combination.
Some riders achieve their best marks in the Grand Prix and Grand Prix Special (which are about technical ability), while others excel at the freestyle (more emphasis on the artistic aspect). As an example, going back a few years now, dressage was all about 2 riders: Isabell Werth and Anky Van Grunsven. Isabell was (and still is) an amazing technical rider, pretty much unbeatable in the Grand Prix and GPS. Anky, on the other hand was known as the "Queen of the Kur" and near unbeatable in the freestyle.
It's the same with writing, some writers prefer to plan and outline, others to pants.
However, as with riding, without the basic principle of leg to hand, there is nothing.
Formerly known as MsMotty/Linzi82

Our goal in life is to overcome obstacles placed in our way without destroying them so that others may also share in our triumphs.

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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby Oldtimer » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:28 am

Great analogy, MsMotty. Thanks for posting it.
Read samples of my Martian series (by Dorothy Piper) and two romances (by Joni Havel) on Smashwords.
Hard copies of all are on Amazon.

mike m.
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby mike m. » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:40 am

[quote="Lbeauchesne"]I have explained how I write, mike. You ignored the post. It was a while ago, now.
I likened my writing process to basic horse riding: leg to hand. Everything comes from that. When I'm writing, the only difference is that my brain and thought processes are my "legs" the ideas and story are the horse. My hands do the same as when I'm riding. They shape the story, provide somewhere for it to go.
I'll break it down a bit more for you and use riding instead: When riding a dressage test, there are changes of pace and within pace. The horse doesn't know what it's meant to do at a marker point until the rider tells it. If I want half-pass, that information comes from the legs to go sideways. The hands of the rider are merely, to help keep the horse correct.
So, sticking with the equestrian theme. From a laypersons point of view, the 2 different ways of writing are like an Olympic dressage competition. Planning/outlining is like the first 2 tests, the Grand Prix and Grand Prix Special: Every movement is already written out and predetermined. On the other hand, pantsing can be likened (to the casual observer) to the freestyle or Kur: There are movements that have to be performed (lets call them the basic requirements of a story) but there is no outline, the rider decides which movements are performed at each point of the test.
The finished product of both are a test. How well comes down to the skill of the individual combination.
Some riders achieve their best marks in the Grand Prix and Grand Prix Special (which are about technical ability), while others excel at the freestyle (more emphasis on the artistic aspect). As an example, going back a few years now, dressage was all about 2 riders: Isabell Werth and Anky Van Grunsven. Isabell was (and still is) an amazing technical rider, pretty much unbeatable in the Grand Prix and GPS. Anky, on the other hand was known as the "Queen of the Kur" and near unbeatable in the freestyle.
It's the same with writing, some writers prefer to plan and outline, others to pants.
However, as with riding, without the basic principle of leg to hand, there is nothing.[/quote]
=========

interesting horsie story

not sure how i can use that to develop a course teaching writing using your methods

Lbeauchesne
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby Lbeauchesne » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:59 am

Find something you do understand with 2 parts which can be likened to writing. Just standing in front of a class and saying "this is the planning method and this is the pants method" won't help the majority of students.
When I was at school, teachers used analogies all the time. It was often tied to something the teacher knew well. If you look into things you enjoy and know about outside of writing, you may just find something that you can liken the writing processes to.
I only use horse riding as it's something I know well from participating.
Formerly known as MsMotty/Linzi82

Our goal in life is to overcome obstacles placed in our way without destroying them so that others may also share in our triumphs.

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