what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

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jackitaylor
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby jackitaylor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:39 am

It is disappointing, as a fairly new member here, that so many interesting and possibly educational and helpful threads have to be discontinued because it goes off topic or becomes a mud slinging contest. I can't afford books or classes on writing, free resources like this forum are all I have available to me. I'm probably not the only one.

T.A.Rodgers
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby T.A.Rodgers » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:50 am

I guess I have to keep repeating this. STEVEN JAMES TEACHES ORGANIC WRITING CLASSES. :D

http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/6-secrets-of-writing-a-novel-without-an-outline

Of course it's a lot harder to find instructors who teach the subject, but Mike, you keep saying you have yet to meet someone who teaches pantsing. I'm giving you the name of an awesome instructor. He teaches all over the country. He's a best-selling author. He's a great person. He teaches classes at ThrillerFest with some of the biggest writers in the thriller genre. He's a best-selling author. He has a masters degree in story-telling. He's the real deal. His how to books have been read by authors who have sold ten of millions of novels maybe even hundreds of millions.

Remember STEVEN JAMES TEACHES PANTSING.

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ostarella
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby ostarella » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:36 am

[quote="jackitaylor"]It is disappointing, as a fairly new member here, that so many interesting and possibly educational and helpful threads have to be discontinued because it goes off topic or becomes a mud slinging contest. I can't afford books or classes on writing, free resources like this forum are all I have available to me. I'm probably not the only one.[/quote]

It's very frustrating for a lot of us who have been here a long time as well. Every writing forum I've been on, including this one, have emphasized the exchange and discussion of ideas, of learning about writing by finding out what others have done, experienced, and learned, and then see what we can use of that in our own writing. And every single one of them has also emphasized that writers are all individuals, with different interests, styles, methods, likes, dislikes... It's purely because of that recognition of learning about writing so we can choose our own route that so many of us become frustrated when we find someone telling people they have to do it a certain way to be successful. Most of us have tried to deal with this person reasonably (there's a long history with this person) and patience has worn down to near non-existence. For that, I apologize to those who really did come here to learn and expand their knowledge. We really intend only to correct misconceptions and misinformation, but we're also human.

jackitaylor
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby jackitaylor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:28 am

Thank you ostarella. Yes, I havn't been here long and I already feel like the forum is not serving its purpose. I would worry that this business might discourage a brand new writer from even tying to learn and create. Maybe, if I had started reading here before I started working on my book ideas, i might not have ever gotten started, when told that I wasn't supposed to write without a plan. When I was very new to this, I was full of self-doubt and easily discouraged, im sure that's common. As it sits now, I have been stalled on my book, I was trying to listen to advice of others, and have discovered that just doesnt work for me. Not really the plan/outline thing, maybe that and also the concept of writing out the whole rough draft and then working on revising/editing. I guess my OCD brain can't work that way LOL, I find that my creativity has ground to a halt because Im not satisfied with what I have already. So, I have decided to just work with that for now, instead of fighting it. I am also in bad need of beta readers LOL, I don't want to spend anymore time on this if I am heading in a bad direction or have made any really ucky mistakes, so thats another reason why Im not doing any new writing. I dont want to post exerpts of it here and risk my chances at being published, because its already out there, and Im kind of guarding my secrets about my plot. I think i have a very interesting twist to an old, worn out theme (at this point, nothing new under the sun, so everything is worn out LOL) so Im only posting my practice writing or exercises, from that critique I get wonderful feedback and can then apply it to my WIP.

mike m.
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby mike m. » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:48 am

[quote="jackitaylor"]Thank you ostarella. Yes, I havn't been here long and I already feel like the forum is not serving its purpose. I would worry that this business might discourage a brand new writer from even tying to learn and create. Maybe, if I had started reading here before I started working on my book ideas, i might not have ever gotten started, when told that I wasn't supposed to write without a plan. When I was very new to this, I was full of self-doubt and easily discouraged, im sure that's common. As it sits now, I have been stalled on my book, I was trying to listen to advice of others, and have discovered that just doesnt work for me. Not really the plan/outline thing, maybe that and also the concept of writing out the whole rough draft and then working on revising/editing. I guess my OCD brain can't work that way LOL, I find that my creativity has ground to a halt because Im not satisfied with what I have already. So, I have decided to just work with that for now, instead of fighting it. I am also in bad need of beta readers LOL, I don't want to spend anymore time on this if I am heading in a bad direction or have made any really ucky mistakes, so thats another reason why Im not doing any new writing. I dont want to post exerpts of it here and risk my chances at being published, because its already out there, and Im kind of guarding my secrets about my plot. I think i have a very interesting twist to an old, worn out theme (at this point, nothing new under the sun, so everything is worn out LOL) so Im only posting my practice writing or exercises, from that critique I get wonderful feedback and can then apply it to my WIP.[/quote]
======

the forum was dying
at least now we have some activity

if a few people would discuss writing and not personalities there would be more discussing of value

start a thread and ask a question
you will get the help you want

excerpts here wont ruin your chance of being published
nor will beta readers

there are ways to teach creativity
books and courses
if you are stuck on that part then learn how to do it

please break up your posts by sub topic and insert cr cr to help readability

so you wrote without a plan and got stalled
that is the typical result pantsers get
a few people can just write and fix it with revisions and edits

my experience says most people need a roadmap first to show how to get from here to there

you should look at the snowflake method and see if that would work for you

mike m.
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby mike m. » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:58 am

[quote="T.A.Rodgers"]I guess I have to keep repeating this. STEVEN JAMES TEACHES ORGANIC WRITING CLASSES. :D

http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/6-secrets-of-writing-a-novel-without-an-outline

Of course it's a lot harder to find instructors who teach the subject, but Mike, you keep saying you have yet to meet someone who teaches pantsing. I'm giving you the name of an awesome instructor. He teaches all over the country. He's a best-selling author. He's a great person. He teaches classes at ThrillerFest with some of the biggest writers in the thriller genre. He's a best-selling author. He has a masters degree in story-telling. He's the real deal. His how to books have been read by authors who have sold ten of millions of novels maybe even hundreds of millions.

Remember STEVEN JAMES TEACHES PANTSING.[/quote]
=====

i will try to find this james guy and see

the link had some good points and some bad ones
very interesting but not a method to teach HOW to write
just tips on what to do while you are doing it
which might fit in a course on writing

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ostarella
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby ostarella » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:00 am

A note on posting pieces here (or any forum with critiques available).

Posting portions in a specified critique forum is not considered "published". This is a recognized tool for writers, recognized by agents and publishers alike. So as long as you're only posting parts and not a significant amount of your writing, you're fine. And often, a couple portions are all that's really needed, as the same things will pop up throughout the writing - good things as well as not so good. ;) With "whole story" issues, finding a couple betas who can look at it as a whole can be helpful, but not everyone wants or needs that, either. If you keep writing, eventually you'll get to the point where you'll only need help with a problematic scene or something you may be experimenting with.

As to anyone taking your idea, that's also a common fear among new writers. Naturally, no one can guarantee complete security, but ideas are a dime a dozen. Seriously. Give exactly the same idea to ten different writers and you'll end up with ten different stories, no matter how "unique" that idea is. What gives the idea value is what YOU do with it. No one else can replicate your phrasing, the way you set up your scenes, the way you portray your characters - that's all you, and only you. :)

mike m.
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby mike m. » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:10 am

[quote="T.A.Rodgers"]I guess I have to keep repeating this. STEVEN JAMES TEACHES ORGANIC WRITING CLASSES. :D

http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/6-secrets-of-writing-a-novel-without-an-outline

Of course it's a lot harder to find instructors who teach the subject, but Mike, you keep saying you have yet to meet someone who teaches pantsing. I'm giving you the name of an awesome instructor. He teaches all over the country. He's a best-selling author. He's a great person. He teaches classes at ThrillerFest with some of the biggest writers in the thriller genre. He's a best-selling author. He has a masters degree in story-telling. He's the real deal. His how to books have been read by authors who have sold ten of millions of novels maybe even hundreds of millions.

Remember STEVEN JAMES TEACHES PANTSING.[/quote]

=====

getting harder

i googled for him

and when i clicked through i got patterson and king but only one small article about him and not his writing

will need to refine search terms and see if i can find his course

jackitaylor
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby jackitaylor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:43 am

I don't need to learn how to be creative, i have been creative my whole life. I take elements of my own experiences and knowledge and apply imagination. That's it, in a nutshell. No course can teach that. Perhaps methods of accessing one's imagination, hone it, direct it, but the creativity comes from within.

oh and my bit of writer's block is after I made an outline, so apparently making an outline is not the one and only right way to write, maybe, just maybe, everybody is different, our minds process information differently, and it really is a personal journey.

mike m.
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Re: what is/are the best niche(s) to help sales

Postby mike m. » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:25 pm

[quote="jackitaylor"]I don't need to learn how to be creative, i have been creative my whole life. I take elements of my own experiences and knowledge and apply imagination. That's it, in a nutshell. No course can teach that. Perhaps methods of accessing one's imagination, hone it, direct it, but the creativity comes from within.

oh and my bit of writer's block is after I made an outline, so apparently making an outline is not the one and only right way to write, maybe, just maybe, everybody is different, our minds process information differently, and it really is a personal journey.[/quote]
=========

you can teach creativity
but if you already can do that then move on to the writing

outline is a dirty word
it means too many different things to different people

i prefer organising and planning which is far different from outlining

what was the problem with your outline
it could be how you tried to do it
or maybe the way you used it
or maybe it just wasnt done enough to be useful
if you dont have the scenes that fall like dominoes then you never really outlined
the harvard style outline is pretty much useless and impossible to do but that is what my elhi teacher taught us as 'outlining'

do you have a list of scenes that flow from the start to the finish ?
all you need is a phrase that tells what it is about briefly so you dont get lost in verbose bloviation that hides what is going on

can you plan and organise a beat sheet that lists the scenes and the sequence using what you have done so far?
why not try that exercise.
take 3x5 cards or even excel and list the scenes with a phrase that reminds you what is happening. one line max per card or cell.
scan the sequence and see if it flows right or if there are holes.
fix the order and fill in gaps. also remove what is extraneous.

optionally expand the description of each scene with columns for who what where when why and anything else you want to include in that scene

now write each scene focusing on that scene and see how easy it is. faster better too.

isnt it easier to get to your vacation spot faster better easier if you have a road map and plan the route first
isnt it easier to get through a maze if you look down from above than when you are stuck in the middle and only see walls

isnt it easier to write that entire novel when you know what the story is and where it is going

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