avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapters

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Lbeauchesne
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby Lbeauchesne » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:26 pm

[quote="mike m."][quote="Lbeauchesne"]So, anyone who happens to disagree is a "liberal" according to you? Well, we now know where we stand with you.[/quote]
======

there you go again being all confused

it is the way they disagree and make personal attacks and try to censor people they dont agree with
that is the go to core strategy of the libtards using the saul alinsky playbook[/quote]

Not being confused, just noticing a general theme from you, in assuming the political persuasion of anyone who tries to present a differing opinion to yours. Strangely enough, that's the go to position of those on the extreme right of the political spectrum in Europe. However, I only have a few words that you have offered up regarding what you think of others, so I'm not going to make assumptions on your political persuasion, nor am I going to throw insults about left and right because that isn't why I'm on this forum.
I joined this forum (presumably as the majority of members have) to gain feedback on some of my work, to work on improving myself as a writer and to share my excitement at the publication of my first novel. I did not join so that someone could disparage my assumed political beliefs, or trade insults about what is the "correct" way to write.
I don't care about how much experience someone has, in the scientific community it doesn't mean freedom from criticism. I'll respect your opinions, but I won't take them as gospel. I'll question them because that's what scientists do: we question everything. If you see that as a personal attack, that's your prerogative, but it's incorrect as I'll act the same way with anyone in a debate.
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby mike m. » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:18 pm

[quote="Lbeauchesne"][quote="mike m."][quote="Lbeauchesne"]So, anyone who happens to disagree is a "liberal" according to you? Well, we now know where we stand with you.[/quote]
======

there you go again being all confused

it is the way they disagree and make personal attacks and try to censor people they dont agree with
that is the go to core strategy of the libtards using the saul alinsky playbook[/quote]

Not being confused, just noticing a general theme from you, in assuming the political persuasion of anyone who tries to present a differing opinion to yours. Strangely enough, that's the go to position of those on the extreme right of the political spectrum in Europe. However, I only have a few words that you have offered up regarding what you think of others, so I'm not going to make assumptions on your political persuasion, nor am I going to throw insults about left and right because that isn't why I'm on this forum.
I joined this forum (presumably as the majority of members have) to gain feedback on some of my work, to work on improving myself as a writer and to share my excitement at the publication of my first novel. I did not join so that someone could disparage my assumed political beliefs, or trade insults about what is the "correct" way to write.
I don't care about how much experience someone has, in the scientific community it doesn't mean freedom from criticism. I'll respect your opinions, but I won't take them as gospel. I'll question them because that's what scientists do: we question everything. If you see that as a personal attack, that's your prerogative, but it's incorrect as I'll act the same way with anyone in a debate.[/quote]
======

i use the duck test
walks looks quacks like a duck
whatcha gonna call it

replace duck with libtard
personal attacks
censorship
illogical
...

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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby rob-lost » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:28 am

==i use the duck test
walks looks quacks like a duck
whatcha gonna call it==

You wind up calling it a tortoise, so...
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Lbeauchesne
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby Lbeauchesne » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am

Please point out where I have made a personal attack for you to justify your insults against me? I'm not illogical in anyway at all with my replies, I do not use personal attacks, nor do I (or anyone else here) favour censorship. All anyone has asked you to do is accept that the way you write is not for everyone, in the same way we all accept that the differing and varied ways we write are not for everyone. You have asked for explanations as to how we approach our writing methods and we have provided them (to the best of our ability to explain how we write). You have then dismissed what we have said continuously, demanding more and more of people, further explanations of a how that we have given numerous times.
Now, if you want me to jump to conclusions in the way you do about people and throw insults at you or make a personal attack, that isn't going to happen. You know why? Because I spent 13 years working with people like you, people who demanded more and more of me, who made personal attacks against me, called me names and didn't listen. They wanted me to call them names so they could go telling tales and get me in trouble because not one person working there would back me up that they had started it. For 13 years, they continued their personal attacks and name calling, dismissing me and any ideas I put forward as useless before presenting the exact same idea as their own a few days later. And for most of that time, I didn't give them the time of day to respond. Oh, it hurt being called useless, it broke my confidence, but I never took the bait. So, no, I'm not going to stoop to your level.
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby pls » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:37 pm

I'm going to try something different this time. Instead of locking this topic, which is redolent of personal attacks, arguing, and little about writing, I'm going to move it to "Take It Outside" where you can continue bashing each other to your hearts' content. And unless it gets REALLY personal, it will remain unlocked.
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby pls » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:56 pm

Since william/n00b/mike joined here, moderating this forum has been like trying to deal with a bunch of three-year-olds in a sand pit. mike says he likes discussions, and yet after a perfunctory discussion he always seems to move into petty arguments and oblique attacks on individuals - and then I have to delete or lock topics. I've locked more topics in the last couple of month than I have since I took over the job of chief moderator here, about 2011.

And yet, mike, you call for encouragement of new members? If I were a new member I wouldn't have to read more than one or two of your argumentive posts before I'd run like hell. You, sir, simply don't know the difference between one of your arguments and a true discussion; you constantly ignore the forum motto: Write Better, Get Published; you've driven off uncounted potential members; in short, in spite of some useful information that you've posted, you have become a detriment to this entire forum.

Don't you have anything better to do with your time?
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby mike m. » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:33 pm

[quote="pls"]Since william/n00b/mike joined here, moderating this forum has been like trying to deal with a bunch of three-year-olds in a sand pit. mike says he likes discussions, and yet after a perfunctory discussion he always seems to move into petty arguments and oblique attacks on individuals - and then I have to delete or lock topics. I've locked more topics in the last couple of month than I have since I took over the job of chief moderator here, about 2011.

And yet, mike, you call for encouragement of new members? If I were a new member I wouldn't have to read more than one or two of your argumentive posts before I'd run like hell. You, sir, simply don't know the difference between one of your arguments and a true discussion; you constantly ignore the forum motto: Write Better, Get Published; you've driven off uncounted potential members; in short, in spite of some useful information that you've posted, you have become a detriment to this entire forum.

Don't you have anything better to do with your time?[/quote]
=======

i post a statement

others attack me

they offer no facts just opinions
and insist that i am wrong

i would love to discuss
ostarella loves to argue
because of her big ego unsupported by lack of success publishing anthing

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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby rob-lost » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:58 pm

==they offer no facts just opinions
and insist that i am wrong==
No, THIS is wrong.

Ostarella has said that what you've posited doesn't work FOR HER. She's not made any blanket statements. YOU have done that.
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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby mike m. » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:05 pm

[quote="rob-lost"]==they offer no facts just opinions
and insist that i am wrong==
No, THIS is wrong.

Ostarella has said that what you've posited doesn't work FOR HER. She's not made any blanket statements. YOU have done that.[/quote]
=====

that is false
i never said anybody was wrong
i said that logically it was the longer slower harder way to create content and less likely to have a good result
and i proved logically it is faster better easier to move 3x5 cards around to get it right first
...... than to try to move reams of verbiage around to fix it after the fact

the only blanket statements i said was that
.......... nobody has shown how to teach it
......... nobody has explained the HOW it works
......... i have never seen it work in practice
............... all the people at work i knew failed with that method
............... all my students at the uni failed with that method
......... that was what i was taught implicitly in elhi and the uni
................ and it was a total fail for me
......... only when i realised that planning and preparation did work was i able to write
................ and after that i made a good living with writing as a big part of the job and for a few years my entire job


summary : nobody has any proof that it works WELL
.............. and not very much valid evidence beyond stephen king that it works at all
........................ (and i suspect he plans in his head using his skill and experience, just does not do it explicitly on paper)
.............. ostarella has never been published

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Re: avoiding dead ends that cause revision or tossing chapt

Postby ostarella » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:30 pm

[quote="mike m."]ostarella has never been published[/quote]

You have never published any fiction either. Just being clear.
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