WD university - how to outline

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Noizchild
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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby Noizchild » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:45 pm

I don't have the patience to outline.
You ask me what I thought about
Before we were lovers.
The answer is easy.
Before I met you
I didn't have anything to think about.

-- From "The Love Poems of Marichiko"

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ostarella
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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby ostarella » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:51 pm

[quote="Noizchild"]I don't have the patience to outline.[/quote]

Me either. I've started an outline (4 or 5 lines), but then I just went on with the actual story. I can't help myself :D
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mike m.
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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby mike m. » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:39 pm

[quote="Noizchild"]I don't have the patience to outline.[/quote]
======

depends what you call outline

pantsers tend to think there is way too much involved with an "outline'
trying to create a harvard style outline first is absolutely ridiculous

i prefer to call it plan and organise and the outline is implicit
you do as much as you need so you know where you are going
you can iterate with some writing if you have that urge to write some sooner

you do it all faster and easier by working at a high level with 3x5 cards
that you can shuffle to make the sequence right and check for holes or useless scenes
use those as a road map showing the waypoints you have to visit

then it is easier quicker better when you start writing with the path plotted
and you dont have to worry about making what you write fit it at the same time because the path has been done
and you know what has to be written and where the whole thing is going so you can focus on writing the current scene better

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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby mike m. » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:45 pm

[quote="ostarella"][quote="Noizchild"]I don't have the patience to outline.[/quote]

Me either. I've started an outline (4 or 5 lines), but then I just went on with the actual story. I can't help myself :D[/quote]
====

i suspect you were never taught the easy way to 'outline'
for sure the direct harvard style outline creation is stupid to try

but an outline falls out implicitly if you plan and organise before writing
what you really need is the beat sheet
something that lists all the scenes in sequence to make the best possible story with no holes and no useless filler

that is easier and faster to do with phrases on 3x5 cards that you can move around quickly
,and see at a glance if the sequence makes sense fill in the holes and also delete useless scenes ,
than it would be by writing tonnes of verbiage and trying to make that all line up properly

you put your story creativity into coming up with the scenes
and then you focus your writing creativity on creating the scenes while free of distractions of worrying where the story is going to go like if you were ad hoc writing each scene independently

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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby ostarella » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:37 am

[quote="mike m."]i suspect you were never taught the easy way to 'outline'
for sure the direct harvard style outline creation is stupid to try

but an outline falls out implicitly if you plan and organise before writing[/quote]


Oh, I've been taught so many different ways of outlining and planning and - I just don't see the point of it. If I'm figuring out what's to come next, why not just write it instead of putting it on a card?

Some writers are planners, some aren't. Doesn't really matter how it's done - I doubt any reader could tell by the end product how it came to be. I don't know how to build a car but I know if it runs right. As long as I can write a good story and finish it, then whatever I'm doing is working.
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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby rob-lost » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:36 am

==pantsers tend to think there is way too much involved with an "outline'
trying to create a harvard style outline first is absolutely ridiculous==
No.

It's not about amount.

It's about methodology, and thought processes.

My characters, the world they live in, and the plot they experience, they become living organic elements for me.

For me, it's about how this living, breathing construct, the story, interacts with me as I bring it out.

I don't build that. I reveal it.

Outlining, for me, is building. And I just don't think that way.
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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby mike m. » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:45 am

[quote="rob-lost"]==pantsers tend to think there is way too much involved with an "outline'
trying to create a harvard style outline first is absolutely ridiculous==
No.

It's not about amount.

It's about methodology, and thought processes.

My characters, the world they live in, and the plot they experience, they become living organic elements for me.

For me, it's about how this living, breathing construct, the story, interacts with me as I bring it out.

I don't build that. I reveal it.

Outlining, for me, is building. And I just don't think that way.[/quote]
=========

you need to stop outlining

start planning and organising
use your creativity and reveals to lay out a good story that makes sense and moves forward logically

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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby rob-lost » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:42 am

@mike m:
Clearly, you didn't pay attention to a single word I wrote.

So be it. I tried.
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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby ostarella » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:44 am

[quote="mike m."]

you need to stop outlining

start planning and organising
use your creativity and reveals to lay out a good story that makes sense and moves forward logically[/quote]

Planning and organizing do not have to happen before the story gets written. For many writers, logic and understanding of what has already happened dictates what the next move will be; coupled with the ability to consider options at the moment, and which can be worked into the better story, this negates any necessity for outlines or pre-planning, while the organizing in merely a matter of knowing what's already happened and not writing in opposition to that.

It should be understood that not everyone on the forum is a newbie writer figuring out what method to try. Many of us have been writing for years and know precisely what works best for us. I don't tell my friends who outline/plan/organize that they're doing it wrong. They know what makes it happen for them, and they know what makes it happen for me. The point is to get a well-written finished ms, and that's what we do, no matter what the method.
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Re: WD university - how to outline

Postby mike m. » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:56 am

[quote="rob-lost"]@mike m:
Clearly, you didn't pay attention to a single word I wrote.

So be it. I tried.[/quote]
=====

rob lost in space

Clearly, you didn't pay attention to a single word I wrote.

So be it. I tried

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