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school curricula - how to teach writing : Tips and Advice • Page 2 • Writing Forum | WritersDigest.com

school curricula - how to teach writing

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plughmann
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby plughmann » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:39 am

[quote="ostarella"]He asked the same question under a former incarnation. I gave him a lengthy answer but apparently it went in one ear and out the other, as usual.

He's just looking for someone to say something - anything - that he can disagree with and then insult them for bothering to respond.[/quote]


You gave an answer that was totally unresponsive to the actual question.

plughmann
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby plughmann » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:43 am

[quote="updog"][quote="updog"]I've been following this "discussion" for months now, and I still don't understand the question.[/quote]

I dont know how much clearer the question could be.

Students dont know how to write.
The current methods used by elhi schools, and unis too, are a big fail.[/quote]

Odd. The students in my life know how to write.

[quote="plughmann"][/b /u /i] SO HOW would you teach them HOW to write? [/i /u /b]

That is as clear as I can write the question.
What would you include in the syllabus for the teaching of HOW to write.
They dont need grammar or low level help.
They need something like development editing or an alternative at a higher level.[/quote]

Seriously, how to write WHAT? A sentence? A letter to the editor? A book review? An essay? A novel? I need more from you than just a vague "HOW to write" before I can give an answer of any substance.[/quote]
==============

They need to be able to write anything that is needed in life. A good process on HOW to write would let them write anything.

It should not matter what they are writing. The details of everything are obviously always different. They need a process so they can write anything.

Where do you teach? Where do you work? Do the students you know really know how to write well as well as fast and effectively?
That is totally different from the students I know.

So if you know students who really know how to write then why not just tell us the methods their school used. A copy of a syllabus would be nice.
Any description of what they did would be useful. Just asserting it is not responsive to the question.
Last edited by plughmann on Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ostarella
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby ostarella » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:45 am

[quote="plughmann"]You gave an answer that was totally unresponsive to the actual question.[/quote]

I gave an answer you didn't like, in other words. But I'll let others decide:

http://www.writersdigest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=267969&hilit=curriculum&start=10#p781666

plughmann
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby plughmann » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:47 am

[quote="robjvargas"][quote="plughmann"]
Fall for what?

I am looking for information not hostile attacks from all y'all that are anti planning.[/quote]
Can't say I'd blame WD for editing this but... poop unicorns and rainbows. On several levels.

1) you're NOT looking for information. You're looking for attention. ANY attention. It shows in the way you are fundamentally incapable of accepting an answer you don't like.
2) There's no such thing as "anti planning." You made that up because no one here accepts your definition of planning when it comes to how each of us write. In truth, NO ONE has said there's anything wrong with planning. I've even told you multiple times that it's not 100.000% one or the other for me. And you've ignored it several times.

I'm going to stop there on this sub-topic. It's not like you're going to pay attention anyway.

[quote="plughmann"]If you can explain how your method works then I am interested. Else please dont hijack the thread and be a troublemaker.[/quote]
I have. Several times. So have others. And you've refused to discuss it. Under ALL of your ID's. Your prejudices and biases float to the top like dross. And they form a hard crust over any possibility of good metal beneath. This isn't a thread at all. Just like it wasn't the half a dozen other times you tried this crap.

[quote="plughmann"]I have never ignored facts. I followed up on two pantsing books that did not explain jack. One of them actually was for planning but refused to call it that.[/quote]
And now with the dishonesty. I didn't say facts. I said citations, references, and input from others.
[quote="plughmann"]Nobody has explained HOW your methods work. Certainly not even to a high level outline of what would need to be taught, let alone any details other then nike and edit as you go and magically it will happen. [/quote]
More lies. You were given links to successful authors who say they write by the seat of their pants. You were given responses by authors here who say they do it as well.

[quote="plughmann"]I flat out dont trust you so whether you trust me or not is irrelevant. On your site you banned a person because you didnt agree with them. PLS is not here to be your hit man any longer. So you should start being more positive before you get banned. [/quote]
You know you've effectively just admitted to being william, right? You really SHOULD listen to your own words before you go willy-nilly tossing them at others.

You are banned because you are a troll and a sock-puppet. Do you really think that attacking a respected man who recently passed away is a way to induce discussion? I sure don't. And to me, that's yet another confirmation of you being a troll.

[quote="plughmann"]What matters is whether you all make personal attacks and denigrate comments others make that you dont agree with which is your usual pattern.
Personal attacks , insults, and blatant disrespect will be reported now.

Now if you have something useful to say about the questions raised then please post them. Otherwise take a hike and dont screw up another thread with your nonsense.[/quote]
Again, pay attention to your own words. You are as badly in need of listening to them as anyone.[/quote]

=================

So once again you hijack a discussion to be a bully.

I have no need for attention. My only interest was getting information.
You clearly need attention else why do you keep disrupting other peoples discussion topics.

Clearly you are going to try to prevent others from bothering to answer.

You are clearly anti anything and everything that I say and dont have the decency to stay out of serious discussion I am using to gather information.

plughmann
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby plughmann » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:59 am

[quote="ostarella"][quote="plughmann"]You gave an answer that was totally unresponsive to the actual question.[/quote]

I gave an answer you didn't like, in other words. But I'll let others decide:

http://www.writersdigest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=267969&hilit=curriculum&start=10#p781666%5B/quote%5D


AS usual totally unresponsive to the actual question.

If you dont know HOW to write and HOW to teach HOW to write then why not just stop hijacking a serious discussion.

If you can explain HOW not just that 'they can figure their own way' bit that you posted once then tell us. But figuring your own way is a fail for students.
And no school should ever attempt to let any student figure their own way because then they would be totally redundant and would be shut down.

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ostarella
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby ostarella » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:13 am

[quote="plughmann"][quote="ostarella"][quote="plughmann"]You gave an answer that was totally unresponsive to the actual question.[/quote]

I gave an answer you didn't like, in other words. But I'll let others decide:

http://www.writersdigest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=267969&hilit=curriculum&start=10#p781666%5B/quote%5D


AS usual totally unresponsive to the actual question.

If you dont know HOW to write and HOW to teach HOW to write then why not just stop hijacking a serious discussion.

If you can explain HOW not just that 'they can figure their own way' bit that you posted once then tell us. But figuring your own way is a fail for students.
And no school should ever attempt to let any student figure their own way because then they would be totally redundant and would be shut down.[/quote]


Your reading comprehension is either totally missing or once again you see only what you want to see. Just like it is in every "discussion" you start. You have one goal in mind - make yourself appear knowledgeable when in fact you are full of misinformation, inflexible arrogance, and a total lack of references to back up your claims. In other words, you're a fraud.

plughmann
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby plughmann » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:17 pm

[quote="ostarella"][quote="plughmann"][quote="ostarella"][quote="plughmann"]You gave an answer that was totally unresponsive to the actual question.[/quote]

I gave an answer you didn't like, in other words. But I'll let others decide:

http://www.writersdigest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=267969&hilit=curriculum&start=10#p781666%5B/quote%5D


AS usual totally unresponsive to the actual question.

If you dont know HOW to write and HOW to teach HOW to write then why not just stop hijacking a serious discussion.

If you can explain HOW not just that 'they can figure their own way' bit that you posted once then tell us. But figuring your own way is a fail for students.
And no school should ever attempt to let any student figure their own way because then they would be totally redundant and would be shut down.[/quote]


Your reading comprehension is either totally missing or once again you see only what you want to see. Just like it is in every "discussion" you start. You have one goal in mind - make yourself appear knowledgeable when in fact you are full of misinformation, inflexible arrogance, and a total lack of references to back up your claims. In other words, you're a fraud.[/quote]


my reading and comprhension are excellent. so is my logic which unfortunately you do not use when it interferes with what you want to believe.

i dont need to make myself appear anything. however i am very knowledgeable and seeking still more of it, unlike you who is stuck on stubborn with what you wish were true.

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robjvargas
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby robjvargas » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:19 pm

So excellent that you've been banned half a dozen times.

Sure thing, william.
Slowly putting together a "replacement" forum at http://writerswriting.proboards.com.

It's still under construction, but come take a look.

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updog
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby updog » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:26 pm

[quote="updog"]

Seriously, how to write WHAT? A sentence? A letter to the editor? A book review? An essay? A novel? I need more from you than just a vague "HOW to write" before I can give an answer of any substance.[/quote]
==============

[quote="plughmann"]They need to be able to write anything that is needed in life. A good process on HOW to write would let them write anything.

It should not matter what they are writing. The details of everything are obviously always different. They need a process so they can write anything.

Where do you teach? Where do you work? Do the students you know really know how to write well as well as fast and effectively?
That is totally different from the students I know.

So if you know students who really know how to write then why not just tell us the methods their school used. A copy of a syllabus would be nice.
Any description of what they did would be useful. Just asserting it is not responsive to the question.[/quote]

Of course I know students who really know how to write. I even know some people who make their living from writing. Are you seriously, honestly, truly saying you don't?

Are you from the United States? If so, what state? What year were you born? What was the name of your first school? What classes did you take when you were at college? Was it a community college, a state college, or a private university? What was the dropout rate of the schools you taught at?

"Why not just tell us the methods" you say, but learning to write isn't something that happens in a day. It's a process. It takes time, practice, and a lot of patience to learn how to write well, even if you're naturally wired for it. It's not like a teacher can just say: "Do this!" and suddenly every student in the classroom will know how to write a best seller.

You've said you write well enough to get paid for it. If your schools didn't teach you how to write, where did you pick up the skill? How did you learn? Why not use *that* method to teach others?
"Is it weird in here, or is it just me?" ~ Steven Wright



plughmann
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Re: school curricula - how to teach writing

Postby plughmann » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:26 pm

[quote="updog"][quote="updog"]

Seriously, how to write WHAT? A sentence? A letter to the editor? A book review? An essay? A novel? I need more from you than just a vague "HOW to write" before I can give an answer of any substance.[/quote]
==============

[quote="plughmann"]They need to be able to write anything that is needed in life. A good process on HOW to write would let them write anything.

It should not matter what they are writing. The details of everything are obviously always different. They need a process so they can write anything.

Where do you teach? Where do you work? Do the students you know really know how to write well as well as fast and effectively?
That is totally different from the students I know.

So if you know students who really know how to write then why not just tell us the methods their school used. A copy of a syllabus would be nice.
Any description of what they did would be useful. Just asserting it is not responsive to the question.[/quote]
===========

Of course I know students who really know how to write. I even know some people who make their living from writing. Are you seriously, honestly, truly saying you don't?

Are you from the United States? If so, what state? What year were you born? What was the name of your first school? What classes did you take when you were at college? Was it a community college, a state college, or a private university? What was the dropout rate of the schools you taught at?

"Why not just tell us the methods" you say, but learning to write isn't something that happens in a day. It's a process. It takes time, practice, and a lot of patience to learn how to write well, even if you're naturally wired for it. It's not like a teacher can just say: "Do this!" and suddenly every student in the classroom will know how to write a best seller.

You've said you write well enough to get paid for it. If your schools didn't teach you how to write, where did you pick up the skill? How did you learn? Why not use *that* method to teach others?[/quote]

~~~~~~~~~~~

I am saying that most students dont know how to write at all. The rest dont know how to write well or fast or efficiently or effectively.
The same thing was seen in business and government as well as at the uni.

I know what they are doing in elhi schools now. That is a small step forward but inadequate.
I know what they are doing in the unis now. They teach low level grammar not HOW to write.

Now is there a stray student who may be a good writer. Sure. Ditto for business. But what I observe is a common problem that screams for a solution to make people be able to write better faster easier.

So if you know students who can write well, and write fast efficiently and effectively then why not share their curriculum and syllabus with us.

As to myself I had to unlearn what the schools did and develop a process that worked. I did not have time to waste pantsing some trial and error content.
Tried that and failed because I had deadlines, word count, format requirements, and other constraints. I was forced to plan in detail and be organised in order to write and keep my job. Later I made a living writing using my method. And I have been published in dozens of national magazines and newspapers from WD to the washpost.

Of course writing improves with practice and experience. It improves faster if the writer uses a method that has been shown to work. I learned to touch type 40wpm in two weeks because I had a good course with a good method. Students I saw took a year in school and barely hit 20 wpm with the way they taught typing back then.

A teacher say can use this method and the students will do far better than running around at random like chickens missing their heads just writing and hoping to get something decent out of it. So what is that method. Are there alternatives. Which one would work best overall for a standard of learning for writing.

I suspect that what I did will be part of any final solution. But I dont know if there are not other things that could be used to improve it.

You have lots of questions but no answers to the OP. Can you contribute anything useful or not? You claim you know people who know how to write. But just how well do they write? Can they write to deadline, on word count, within specified formats, and create good content? Tell us how they learned to do that!

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