how did you learn to write

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rob-lost
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby rob-lost » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:37 pm

I haven't said anything about right OR wrong. What I said was that I haven't experienced what you say you've experienced. And I explained how so.

I asked you for the sources of your claims of fact. See those question marks up there? Like that one: a question.

So no, you clearly have no interest whatsoever in discussion.
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Pat James
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby Pat James » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:18 pm

[quote="rob-lost"]I haven't said anything about right OR wrong. What I said was that I haven't experienced what you say you've experienced. And I explained how so.

I asked you for the sources of your claims of fact. See those question marks up there? Like that one: a question.

So no, you clearly have no interest whatsoever in discussion.[/quote]
========

I cited my sources. You choose to ignore them.
You have said nothing but you disagree and demand me to prove my statement.

Not footnoting this like a term paper for you.
If you don't want to believe the truth then don't.
If you are intellectually honest then research it yourself.

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robjvargas
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby robjvargas » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:14 pm

[quote]I cited my sources. You choose to ignore them.
You have said nothing but you disagree and demand me to prove my statement.[/quote]
No you didn't. In fact, your response was:
[quote]
Not my job to convince you.
Education experts writing on the problem have the data. Go ask them.[/quote]
That's a REFUSAL to provide sources. And as for your red herring:
[quote]
Not footnoting this like a term paper for you.
[/quote]
I didn't ask for footnotes. I asked for sources. Here, let me show you an example from recent news:
At the University of Utah, charge nurse Alex Wubbels was arrested for refusing to allow a Detective Payne of the Salt Lake City Police Department to draw blood from an unconscious man without a warrant.

Several statements of fact in there, right? If I were to behave as you have, anyone asking for source would be told, "I read it from a reporter. Go find them!"

Instead, being someone interested in conversation, I provide <GASP!> an actual source:
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45629038&nid=148&title=stop-ive-done-nothing-wrong-nurse-shares-police-video-of-crazy-arrest-by-sl-officer

See how simple that is? No footnote. No compliance with the Chicago Manual of Style, or whatever other red herring you want to bring up.

Just... a source. Maybe I spelled the nurse's name wrong. The other person can now see for themselves why I spelled it that way. Maybe I got the detective's name wrong. Same thing. They can see what I saw and draw their own conclusion. I don't have to get all huffy and puffy and indignant, because a request for a source on my claims of fact was, and here's what's really going to drag your noodle through the pesto, reasonable.
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby Pat James » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:32 pm

[quote="robjvargas"][quote]I cited my sources. You choose to ignore them.
You have said nothing but you disagree and demand me to prove my statement.[/quote]
No you didn't. In fact, your response was:
[quote]
Not my job to convince you.
Education experts writing on the problem have the data. Go ask them.[/quote]
That's a REFUSAL to provide sources. And as for your red herring:
[quote]
Not footnoting this like a term paper for you.
[/quote]
I didn't ask for footnotes. I asked for sources. Here, let me show you an example from recent news:
At the University of Utah, charge nurse Alex Wubbels was arrested for refusing to allow a Detective Payne of the Salt Lake City Police Department to draw blood from an unconscious man without a warrant.

Several statements of fact in there, right? If I were to behave as you have, anyone asking for source would be told, "I read it from a reporter. Go find them!"

Instead, being someone interested in conversation, I provide <GASP!> an actual source:
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45629038&nid=148&title=stop-ive-done-nothing-wrong-nurse-shares-police-video-of-crazy-arrest-by-sl-officer

See how simple that is? No footnote. No compliance with the Chicago Manual of Style, or whatever other red herring you want to bring up.

Just... a source. Maybe I spelled the nurse's name wrong. The other person can now see for themselves why I spelled it that way. Maybe I got the detective's name wrong. Same thing. They can see what I saw and draw their own conclusion. I don't have to get all huffy and puffy and indignant, because a request for a source on my claims of fact was, and here's what's really going to drag your noodle through the pesto, reasonable.[/quote]

=====

You are lying and twisting things.
I cited my sources. You choose to ignore them.

Not going to argue with you.
Over and out.

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robjvargas
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby robjvargas » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:47 pm

[quote]
You are lying and twisting things.
I cited my sources. You choose to ignore them.
[/quote]
Nope. You didn't. A generic term like "education experts" is not a source. It's a copout.

You want to feel superior without all the work of actually indicating that you have the least clue how to get there.

I don't need to declare your (lack of) success in that. Everyone else can draw their own conclusions. I'm pretty confident how closely theirs will mirror my own.
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby Pat James » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:32 pm

[quote="robjvargas"][quote]
You are lying and twisting things.
I cited my sources. You choose to ignore them.
[/quote]
Nope. You didn't. A generic term like "education experts" is not a source. It's a copout.

You want to feel superior without all the work of actually indicating that you have the least clue how to get there.

I don't need to declare your (lack of) success in that. Everyone else can draw their own conclusions. I'm pretty confident how closely theirs will mirror my own.[/quote]
====

You are in denial and quibbling.
It was an education expert. The article was in the washpost.

I have researched the topic and found hundreds of web sites describing current teaching in elhi.

I am an expert as much as you are. I went through elhi and ten years of uni observing how writing was taught.
Later I taught at the uni and saw what the students could do and they told me how they were taught.
I observed writers in business to see what worked for them and what failed. Presumably they used what they were taught.

I don't keep detailed records in case somebody demands them on some internet forum.
BELIEVE IT OR DON'T , IT IS STILL TRUE.

OVER AND OUT!

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ostarella
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby ostarella » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:50 pm

Welcome back william.

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robjvargas
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby robjvargas » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:57 pm

[quote="Pat James"]You are in denial and quibbling.
It was an education expert. The article was in the washpost.[/quote]
You don't even see how you're destroying your own credibility here, do you? In my example, I provided a link. For all anyone knows, your "source" is a fifty-year-old article.
[quote="Pat James"]I have researched the topic and found hundreds of web sites describing current teaching in elhi.[/quote]
Good. Then providing even one source won't be all that hard. Unless, of course, you're lying. Guess which one most people think of you?
[quote="Pat James"]I am an expert as much as you are.[/quote]
Yes, you are. The difference isn't in our expertise. It's in your inability to admit your lack of it.

I own that. I'm no expert. That's why I don't make universal claims. I simply say that I did not experience what you claim. You taking that personally shows just how insecure you are in your own lack of expertise.

[quote="Pat James"] I went through elhi and ten years of uni observing how writing was taught.
Later I taught at the uni and saw what the students could do and they told me how they were taught.
I observed writers in business to see what worked for them and what failed. Presumably they used what they were taught. [/quote]
If you taught, and you say there is no teaching... You can draw your own conclusion. So can anyone still willing to read this morass of illogic and crocodile tears.

I don't know what you experienced. But I know how you take it personal when someone (me, in this case) only says that they don't see what you see.

[quote="Pat James"]I don't keep detailed records in case somebody demands them on some internet forum.[/quote]
Then don't make claims on DISCUSSION FORUMS that you aren't prepared to support with objective, verifiable facts. Stick to what you actually experienced, not these universal truths that you refuse to... you know... discuss.
[quote="Pat James"]BELIEVE IT OR DON'T , IT IS STILL TRUE.

OVER AND OUT![/quote]
No, it's not. You're going to do the same thing you did last time. And the time before that. And the time before that. The same behavior that's got you banned half a dozen times or more. You're going to pronounce and deride and diminish anything that isn't what you say, and you're going to act like the exact opposite of someone willing to have a reasoned discussion.

Don't take my word for that characterization. Instead, ask yourself why, before your last ban, every single other poster in this forum used the same words to describe you. That may not be scientific fact. But it's an undeniable illustration of the "picture" you're drawing of yourself.

What do you get out of such behavior? What is it about treating others this way, and getting treated this way, that keeps bringing you back? What satisfaction could you POSSIBLY get from being so boorish?

You give us very brief flashes of a real person behind that troll image you seem so intent on maintaining. What is it about earning disrespect that you find more rewarding than being respected in disagreement? I don't have to agree with you to respect you. Don't you see that?

Maybe, someday, by some unknowable twist of space-time, you actually start a reasoned discussion. Maybe you actually back up one or more of your claims with an actual source. Even if I read it differently than you do, I can respect someone who makes the effort.

I cannot... No. I *WILL NOT*... I choose not to respect someone who so badly and childishly stamps his feet when people don't take his unsupported assertions at face value.

I'm not asking for a thesis. Nor even formal writing. Remember, it was only when you started denigrating the writing of others that we starting harping on your previous lack of basic writing grammar. I've got this small glimmer of hope that THIS time, you can change without being banned all over again and having to create a new sock puppet.
Slowly putting together a "replacement" forum at http://writerswriting.proboards.com.

It's still under construction, but come take a look.

Lbeauchesne
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby Lbeauchesne » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:27 am

He won't change. We're now 4 incarnations in and he's not shown the slightest interest in changing yet. Probably best to ignore him as he's far too stuck in his ways.
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pls
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Re: how did you learn to write

Postby pls » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:16 pm

Pat et al will no longer be posting here under that name, as he has been decarnated. Help me watch for his next incarnation.

Lbeauchesne's advice is sound. Stop feeding the trolls, folks.
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