The internet is crap for research...

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LadySeshiiria
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The internet is crap for research...

Postby LadySeshiiria » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:26 pm

Anyone else agree? My library is small and doesn't carry a lot of books or non-fiction. (Poor management and bankrupt town.) I decided that I also hate google scholar. How is it in the information tech age we have everything at our finger tips and we are so blasted with everything under the sun that we can find what we really need? Its like going to a buffet and being overwhelmed...

Any suggestions.

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ostarella
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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby ostarella » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:54 pm

If you can't find what you need online, search for the book(s) at other libraries - many times you can do an inter-library loan, where the book is sent to your town's library for you. I do a lot of online searches/research but I confess I've never heard of "google scholar" - sounds like I'm not missing much.
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LadySeshiiria
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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby LadySeshiiria » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:50 am

ostarella wrote:
> If you can't find what you need online, search for the book(s) at other
> libraries - many times you can do an inter-library loan, where the book is
> sent to your town's library for you. I do a lot of online searches/research
> but I confess I've never heard of "google scholar" - sounds like
> I'm not missing much.

Yeah like google search result people pay to have their stuff put in the front. Some of it is pay access as well. Most of it is garbage in my opinion. Google isn't good for unbiased research. Like warpaint and cultures for example yields music, Broadway, feminism (Mostly) , and maybe a little here or there on Native American, or African. Sometimes I'll come across cosplay stuff as well. Its like about 2009 2010 everything became so well I can overwhelming...

Last night I was researching pre-muslim fashions (for my desert people) looking at the Arab culture and got Persian, Egyptian, Turkish, India Indian, Japanese, smutty spam, modern clothing, anime, and a bunch of other unrelated stuff. So frustrating... I have a lot of experience in fashion history, mostly European period clothing, and actual sewing and I know a lot of cultures had cross influences but this had to be haphazard tagging in the search results...

My library unfortunately doesn't offer inter-library loans T.T (It sucks living in a back water sometimes...)
Is there anything else I can do? I don't have a lot of money for books or access to places like a barnes and noble. I've got a walmart though lol. I'm desperate at this point.

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ostarella
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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby ostarella » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:49 am

LadySeshiiria wrote:

>
> Yeah like google search result people pay to have their stuff put in the front. Some
> of it is pay access as well. Most of it is garbage in my opinion. Google isn't good
> for unbiased research. Like warpaint and cultures for example yields music, Broadway,
> feminism (Mostly) , and maybe a little here or there on Native American, or African.
> Sometimes I'll come across cosplay stuff as well. Its like about 2009 2010 everything
> became so well I can overwhelming...
>
> Last night I was researching pre-muslim fashions (for my desert people) looking at
> the Arab culture and got Persian, Egyptian, Turkish, India Indian, Japanese, smutty
> spam, modern clothing, anime, and a bunch of other unrelated stuff. So frustrating...
> I have a lot of experience in fashion history, mostly European period clothing, and
> actual sewing and I know a lot of cultures had cross influences but this had to be
> haphazard tagging in the search results...

Well, no offense, but you've heard the phrase "garbage in, garbage out"? If you're getting those types of results, you need to be more specific in your search terms (and I would recommend adjusting your safe search to filter out the "smutty spam" as well). I have done a ton of research via Google over decades and found innumerable sites and individuals that have been extremely helpful.
"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

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Noizchild
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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby Noizchild » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:41 pm

You're not doing it right.
You ask me what I thought about
Before we were lovers.
The answer is easy.
Before I met you
I didn't have anything to think about.

-- From "The Love Poems of Marichiko"

LadySeshiiria
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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby LadySeshiiria » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:42 pm

ostarella wrote:
> LadySeshiiria wrote:
>
> >
> > Yeah like google search result people pay to have their stuff put in the front.
> Some
> > of it is pay access as well. Most of it is garbage in my opinion. Google isn't
> good
> > for unbiased research. Like warpaint and cultures for example yields music,
> Broadway,
> > feminism (Mostly) , and maybe a little here or there on Native American, or
> African.
> > Sometimes I'll come across cosplay stuff as well. Its like about 2009 2010
> everything
> > became so well I can overwhelming...
> >
> > Last night I was researching pre-muslim fashions (for my desert people) looking
> at
> > the Arab culture and got Persian, Egyptian, Turkish, India Indian, Japanese,
> smutty
> > spam, modern clothing, anime, and a bunch of other unrelated stuff. So
> frustrating...
> > I have a lot of experience in fashion history, mostly European period clothing,
> and
> > actual sewing and I know a lot of cultures had cross influences but this had to
> be
> > haphazard tagging in the search results...
>
> Well, no offense, but you've heard the phrase "garbage in, garbage out"? If
> you're getting those types of results, you need to be more specific in your search
> terms (and I would recommend adjusting your safe search to filter out the
> "smutty spam" as well). I have done a ton of research via Google over
> decades and found innumerable sites and individuals that have been extremely helpful.

I guess I will have to try that despite being taught how to effectively search things in school and in college, it may not be enough to leave the settings alone. As for how google is turning out I know I'm not bad at searching and finding things because my husband a computer tech and once upon a time site runner and owner knows how to do the same thing and is noticed a mass upswing in spammy crap in the search engines aside from googles ability to run algorithms to help with seo.

Actually my husband was telling me I'm not the only one fed up with google, a lot of people I guess are switching to firefox, duck duck go (Hadn't heard of it till last night,) and even some people are desperately going back to legacy engines like yahoo, bing, or internet explorer. :/ Which tells me something there, its not just me, but there is something inherently flawed with the search system. My example with searching war paint and cultures bringing up music and feminism tells me someone is paying to put products and agendas ahead of information and education which is normal and okay, but in the legacy but they put them in the top three as and labeled them ads and the rest where on the dot results. Whereas if you actually look at the way google handles things it can go on for pages.

I also was doing some research and found out along with this forum and others, sites, that search engines in general are under attack so severely as to disrupt information. Its a newish/oldish trend I started noticing during October last year. While the concept of spamming and flooding isn't new the tactics for disruption are changing. Even increasing. Here is just one example of what I'm talking about: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fake-google-ad-sent-users-searching-for-amazon-to-scam-site/ False amazon link to get people to spend money on products they will never get, I was reading in another article online and in some personal blogs from victims of such behavior that its not just false products disguised as reputable sites. If a person wanted to list up a false link for transactions for a reputable bank they could. Which is scary it used to be something we didn't worry about because we could easily spot them and mostly your type of victim was usually uneducated teens, young adults or old people stuck in their house all day and cut off from the world.
The tactic you see in your inbox is similar to what these spammers are doing too, like how when I joined I was in the intro thread and it was nothing but smutty spam links or scams. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2006/nov/09/guardianweeklytechnologysection

I switched over to another engine firefox and there is a huge difference. Google has become too biased leaning left and it impossible to find anything. I believe its under attack right now like Microsoft was for being the computer empire it was. Google has now gotten big enough that is can be both considered a competition and security threat as well, so if I had to guess we are seeing the same loop we did with MS.

Proof of the internet search results being disrupted: https://moz.com/blog/how-organized-crime-is-taking-control-of-googles-search-results and https://moz.com/blog/local-seo-spam-tactics-are-working-how-you-can-fight-back
And its not just organized crime but what is stopping one side or the other from putting false news or political agendas out. This is why I opt to not watch the news or read it. I stay alerted on a local level with in my town and that it. (Otherwise I just get depressed.) And that is corrupt too... (Our last mayor embezzled so much money and was never "caught" for it even though everyone knows about it. Everyone is in the pockets of everyone here. He left our town bankrupt and dry. We are losing businesses as well.) I Predict that if this trend keeps going we will either see another dot com crash, or we will end up seeing people becoming so desensitize to it, that real information becomes lost and we ultimately become vulnerable to whomever. It why I wanted to switch to using the library again but ours is well... okay... bad...

I'm sorry if I talked your ear off, and these were only a few of the links I read recently I did and extensive search on this. Its funny how certain things can be found easier than others. I wonder if the DIY age has something to do with the en mass flood problem too. There are some many blogs on how to do the same thing... Everyone wants to make a buck in other words. I guess Integrity has been lost in certain facets of society as a result.

RobTheThird
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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby RobTheThird » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:59 pm

Beware. Mozilla and Internet Explorer are not search engines. They are browsers. And Yahoo uses Google on the back end, so it's effectively the same thing.

A search engine is a tool. Like any tool, it can be compromised by malicious activity. Search engines have always needed users to exercise some discretion.

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ostarella
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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby ostarella » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:06 am

Yeah, I was going to say Firefox is not a search engine. I have Firefox for my browser and use Google for searches (I've tried bing and yahoo and a few others and I always end up coming back to Google). And again, the "inappropriate" results have more to do with your filters than with Google's search protocols.

Search terms have to be specific. If you did a search on "war paint" (very general phrase), I can easily understand how you would get results on feminism (women's makeup used to be and maybe still is referred to as war paint, usually in a derogatory manner). It's kinda like going to the library and telling the librarian you want a novel. That's not going to help the librarian give you the specific results you're looking for. Telling the librarian you're looking for a murder mystery that takes place in England during WWII - now she's going to be able to give you better results. And if you've the author you're looking for - PAY DIRT IMMEDIATELY!

When I'm doing a search, I typically start out with a minimum of 10-12 words - minimum, mind you. If the results I get seemed skewed away from my subject, I drop or change the words that seem most likely to be causing the problem. And I look at the results that are close, and see what sorts of other search terms could get me even closer. It's not type in a couple words and get what you want - you really have to bear in mind just how many websites are out there with a lot of the same terms getting picked up. It's work. But so is going to a massive library to find the 2-3 books that will answer your questions. But I have found not only websites but people who have been of phenomenal help to me - so the time and effort was well worth it.
"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

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Fictional Chef
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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby Fictional Chef » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:45 pm

I understand your frustration with internet search results. As each days passes, the internet seems to be less of a place for information and more about marketing and making money with things like search engine optimization.

The good news is, other than having fewer books to choose from at your local library, you have the same information available to you there that I do here in the big city. It's all online. I don't know anyone else who still goes to an actual library to do research unless they need to look through archived local newspapers. It really is a matter of learning from your unproductive searches to refine them into successful ones. When I start researching something new, I always seem to start with the useless results. Similar terminology can apply to different subjects. (Grrr...) Generic questions and phrases have taught me that! But, once I learn a few things about my intended subject, I learn more of the language used by people involved. That's what leads to successful results for me.

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Re: The internet is crap for research...

Postby RobTheThird » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:40 am

> I don't know anyone else who still goes to an actual library to do research unless they need to look through archived local newspapers.

DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!

One of the things that has NOT changed about libraries is that they are not just repositories of books, magazines, etc. Librarians frequently have college degrees in something called library science. That's not just a degree in the Dewey Decimal System, either. For as long as libraries have existed, librarians have also been taught, and learned, the science...

:::Drum roll, please:::

Searching.

That's right. One of the tasks librarians train in is finding out how to find out stuff. If you learn to work with them, they can be the ultimate search engine of search engines, both online and offline.

I gained SO MUCH respect for librarians way back in High School when I made the mistake of writing my senior English paper on T.S. Eliot and The Waste Land. They warned me right away that the information was hard to find, but voluminous once it began coming in. One of the books they found for me was from Oxford University. Like ENGLAND! They actually had it shipped over. I couldn't leave the library with it, but even though I came to realize why my English teacher had me rethink it for a day, it reawakened my love for language. And, like I said, ignited a respect for librarians.

Remember, some of those professional journals out there charge hundreds of dollars to reprint their articles, but libraries and networks of libraries (sometimes) get low or no cost access to those journals.

Don't write off libraries just yet. They are still valuable resources.

Oh, wow, pun not intended.

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