Problems with research and need help

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LadySeshiiria
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Problems with research and need help

Postby LadySeshiiria » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:35 pm

I am writing a Gods and Magic Fantasy and I am working on building the magic system as we speak. So I have some thoughts and questions. I want it to be mentally/visually striking and thought provoking at the same time. So I have created a lot of my own things but I also want it to include some real world occult imagery and such. Public domain images claim to be copyright free and free to use, but they also claim on some of these websites that you still need to find the owner, attribute it, and pay for a license if you are using it for commercial purposes. (One site said some of these images are hosted in libraries and that they require payment to use them outside of free use terms.) I am in a long haul process and can't guarantee that my series will even be published or make money so I am hesitant to invest money on licenses for that kind of thing when I can invest my money in other areas of my project. I see a lot of video games, movies, and fiction use occult images all the time even if they make their own art and base it off of the original. This is kind of what I would like to do. I have a huge love for historical documents and some of these medieval calligraphy books feel so right in a fantasy setting. Here is one example of a manuscript from early man that is just breath taking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Gigas The inking and painting is gorgeous, but I digress.

I am also an artist so I have a thing for designing my own armor, clothing, buildings, maps, and such. I mostly want to do this for myself so I have a complete reference manual to work from for consistency. I am currently writing as well, and my husband has told me with such a large project having a reference manual would be a huge benefit. So far I am working on a side story/off shoot in the same realm, to keep momentum, practicing, and learning the craft. Estimated 20,000 word count on my first novel. What is the average WC for a high fantasy novel and the WC per chapter? I am nervous I have written too much so far. I've been thinking shorter fantasy chapters are 2500 where as longer book are probably 5000, is this correct?

Also warpaint... I'm trying to design a main playing character not the main character - earth walking God's warpaint and want to go authentic but I'm afraid of accidentally infringing on something. So many people draw off of the real world for things in entertainment. (Example: Elder Scrolls Skyrim- Nords: Everything down to the last detail the housing, hair styles and clothing. Authentic.)

So where can I find true free use occult images or stock photos for reference that can be potentially used in fiction and later published without worrying about copyright infringement or issues? (Not wanting to publish original images just want to base some ideas and artwork off of the stocks.)
I'm looking for mostly runes, circles, geometrical and mathematical images (Sacred Geometry), Hermetic, and Enochian styled stuff. I want to have a reference to design more of my own things and integrate some authenticity in my fiction. A lot of my magic is very technical and effort based.

Oh and I appologize while we are here a couple more questions. I'm a huge fan of Microsoft Office but I have been hearing some cool things about Scrivener. If you use that program what has you experience been like with it? What kinds of tool do you guys like to use for your writing?
And last but not least...
When typing up your manuscript is there anything I should know about the layout and format? What is acceptable for a publisher? So far I'm just writing in my documents and sticky noting in it when stuck, or wanting to fix areas.

I'm sorry for the long post, I've been going at this alone since last year when I left another forum. I am apprehensive about trying another forum out, because of the way people acted on the last one. If you read my introduction post I said I was attacked by feminists for a male characters decision. What happened to story telling? :/ While I'm here I'm not interested on politics. I may be a millennial, but I just don't care about these agendas, I'm more concerned with working hard, spirituality, and raising my family the best I can.

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ostarella
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby ostarella » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:55 pm

If you're going to be looking for a trade publisher (versus self-publishing), I wouldn't waste any time or money on illustrations. Trade publishers have their own art departments/contractors for that. If you want them just for inspiration, just copy paste and have at it ;)

As to MS Office or Scrivener, I can't advise you - I use a very basic Atlantis Nova and it works just fine (but then I'm not a fan of bells and whistles - I'd use a typewriter if it weren't so hard to make corrections :roll: ).

Format and layout will vary with the publisher - and agents. Check their website for submission guidelines (including whether or not they even accept unsolicited ms - you'll have to find an agent to get to those).
"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

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T.A.Rodgers
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby T.A.Rodgers » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:00 am

With Epic Fantasies the novel will be over 100k words because it takes a lot of words to build worlds.

Layouts of novels are standard for most places when it comes to submissions.
1. 1 inch margins
2. Times New Roman font (Some use Courier, but most agents and publishers I've spoken to say TNR).
3. Indent paragraphs instead of using tabs
4. Double space
5. Start each chapter on a new page about half way down the page
6. Don't switch heads in the same paragraph (head hopping). Better yet use a single POV per section or chapter

That's a start. You can try to google other things to see what you can find.

I've been using Microsoft Word since it was installed by using floppy disks. It does everything I need. :)

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Brien Sz
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby Brien Sz » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:16 pm

As for your illustrations, maps, etc., all I can add is for you to watch your file size. I began a photography book in Word and about a quarter of the way into it, using 300dpi images, it crashed. At first I wasn't sure what happened so I began again... I didn't get nearly as far before Word crashed the file a second time. In doing research on this, because I had never had an issue in the past, it turns out Word isn't built for that type of project unless you start 'zipping' the files. However, as I continued to look into the matter, I learned that Adobe's, In Design is the perfect vehicle for what I need. I am using that for my photography book.

LadySeshiiria
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby LadySeshiiria » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:25 pm

ostarella wrote:
> If you're going to be looking for a trade publisher (versus
> self-publishing), I wouldn't waste any time or money on illustrations.
> Trade publishers have their own art departments/contractors for that. If
> you want them just for inspiration, just copy paste and have at it ;)
>
> As to MS Office or Scrivener, I can't advise you - I use a very basic
> Atlantis Nova and it works just fine (but then I'm not a fan of bells and
> whistles - I'd use a typewriter if it weren't so hard to make corrections
> :roll: ).
>
> Format and layout will vary with the publisher - and agents. Check their
> website for submission guidelines (including whether or not they even
> accept unsolicited ms - you'll have to find an agent to get to those).

I kind of wanted to release a concept art book along side it. Do you think a TP would allow such a thing? Otherwise I'm still leaning more self-publishing because I can have ultimate control over my creativity, although I would love the perks of a TP with editing and such. (Publishing in general right now I find to be putting the cart way before the horse.) I know they are going to want to use their own art for covers on the novel. Honestly, in my opinion being a fan of the old school here. I liked the old fantasy with the painted images like https://goodereader.com/blog/technology/the-wheel-of-time-is-being-made-into-a-tv-series over the crappy cliche photography that is so popular today. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnhlBJS0oOxsZYwa-YkwqhhD4YuiEkOAfnkdzxbzXl-aOXiQo&usqp=CAY That is the kind of crap I can't stand lol XD It may sound really lame but I always avoided buying books with that style of cover and opted for the optional others even if the was just basic covers with titling. The photography styles not only feel cliche but tedious to me and unoriginal. I find them to all look the same which in my opinion screams I can't stand out from a crowd and feels like bad marketing artistically speaking. (But I must say if I have to sacrifice creativity for pay I think I'd rather be practical.)

I might just be sticking with ms since I've used it all my life but everyone is telling me that scrivener is amazing for organization so I think its just mostly got my curiosity peeked. I'm like you I like simplicity too, but my organizational file structure as of now kind of frustrates me. My project has gotten so big already with in a just a half a year that it can be a beast to hunt stuff down and I know I'm weak in organizational skills. (Working on it though.)

Sounds good, when you type out your manuscripts do you just adjust them afterwords? I've been wondering if it would be best to leave it for later.

LadySeshiiria
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby LadySeshiiria » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:42 pm

Brien Sz wrote:
> As for your illustrations, maps, etc., all I can add is for you to watch your file
> size. I began a photography book in Word and about a quarter of the way into it,
> using 300dpi images, it crashed. At first I wasn't sure what happened so I began
> again... I didn't get nearly as far before Word crashed the file a second time.
> In doing research on this, because I had never had an issue in the past, it turns
> out Word isn't built for that type of project unless you start 'zipping' the files.
> However, as I continued to look into the matter, I learned that Adobe's, In Design
> is the perfect vehicle for what I need. I am using that for my photography book.

I've never tried to place images in a manuscript through ms, so this is good to know, thank you. Although, in school if I was doing a small project I found it was easier to print the images separately at the end in my references/proper citing or have them printed separately and slid in between writing pages. Seems to be the most effective for school projects. I would think adobe programs in general would be better for images. Most of my art is hanging around separated in its own folder and not actually attracted to the manuscript. I am hoping to launch a concept art book to go with the series. A lot of people around me like my character, fashion, armor, and concept designs and have told me that I should do a separate art book for release as a promo thing. To quote a friend here: "A lot of nerds eat that sh** up." I'd have to agree since I'm kind of a nerd myself. lol I have a lot of art books for my favorite franchises.

What kind of photography do you do? I have to admit I have some guilty favorite subjects. Landscaping, Floral, Macro, and Classy Nudes (Art stock images which are great for drawing practice.)

T.A.Rodgers wrote:
> With Epic Fantasies the novel will be over 100k words because it takes a
> lot of words to build worlds.
>
> Layouts of novels are standard for most places when it comes to
> submissions.
> 1. 1 inch margins
> 2. Times New Roman font (Some use Courier, but most agents and publishers
> I've spoken to say TNR).
> 3. Indent paragraphs instead of using tabs
> 4. Double space
> 5. Start each chapter on a new page about half way down the page
> 6. Don't switch heads in the same paragraph (head hopping). Better yet use
> a single POV per section or chapter
>
> That's a start. You can try to google other things to see what you can
> find.
>
> I've been using Microsoft Word since it was installed by using floppy
> disks. It does everything I need. :)

Sounds about right then, I've been reading too much online and it would seem too many people have too many ideas as to what is right or wrong. I think there are a lot of amateur's out there giving bad advice. I've got to be careful. I'm glad I'm using the correct font then. It was drilled into us as kids in school the TNR was standard. The rest of this is good to know. Pov makes sense since that seems to be the general consensus online as well.

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ostarella
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby ostarella » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:09 pm

LadySeshiiria wrote:
>
> Sounds good, when you type out your manuscripts do you just adjust them afterwords?
> I've been wondering if it would be best to leave it for later.

I have my own formatting while I'm writing - no way I want to try to work with someone else's while I'm trying to create the story itself. But with a computer, it's not that difficult to change fonts and margins etc afterwards.
"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

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Brien Sz
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby Brien Sz » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:51 pm

I shoot the subjects you like except for the nudes.

LadySeshiiria
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby LadySeshiiria » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:56 pm

Brien Sz wrote:
> I shoot the subjects you like except for the nudes.

Awesome. Yeah, I like to use nudes to learn the human body beyond that that's about it in terms of art. I'm uninterested in this current climate of sexual freedom. I find most of the nudes on DA as of late are more for exploitation that anything and it makes me quite sad. I have been looking at a lot of stock photo's off of other sites lately and have been finding an appreciation for landscaping mostly. I think my tastes are changing in terms of what I like looking at art wise. I used to love to look at game art, fandoms, anime, and original artists out there like painters and abstract artists. Finding myself more into photography lately, there area lot of really good ideas there.

ostarella wrote:
> LadySeshiiria wrote:
> >
> > Sounds good, when you type out your manuscripts do you just adjust them
> afterwords?
> > I've been wondering if it would be best to leave it for later.
>
> I have my own formatting while I'm writing - no way I want to try to work with
> someone else's while I'm trying to create the story itself. But with a computer, it's
> not that difficult to change fonts and margins etc afterwards.

Thanks you.

LadySeshiiria
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Re: Problems with research and need help

Postby LadySeshiiria » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:13 pm

I don't know if this counts as bumping a thread, but I need help and don't want to re-post when there is still a good thread to use. One of the topics above anyway.

Quoting myself: "I am writing a Gods and Magic Fantasy and I am working on building the magic system as we speak. So I have some thoughts and questions. I want it to be mentally/visually striking and thought provoking at the same time. So I have created a lot of my own things but I also want it to include some real world occult imagery and such. Public domain images claim to be copyright free and free to use, but they also claim on some of these websites that you still need to find the owner, attribute it, and pay for a license if you are using it for commercial purposes. (One site said some of these images are hosted in libraries and that they require payment to use them outside of free use terms.) I am in a long haul process and can't guarantee that my series will even be published or make money so I am hesitant to invest money on licenses for that kind of thing when I can invest my money in other areas of my project. I see a lot of video games, movies, and fiction use occult images all the time even if they make their own art and base it off of the original. This is kind of what I would like to do. I have a huge love for historical documents and some of these medieval calligraphy books feel so right in a fantasy setting. Here is one example of a manuscript from early man that is just breath taking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Gigas The inking and painting is gorgeous, but I digress."

I never received much of a reply on this so I decided to ask more direct questions in hopes maybe that may help.

So I have done a ton of research on public domain and now I know what kinds of things I can incorporate and what not to. Down to designing the actual activation magics- I need to be able to travel between cities, countries, and even worlds. There is a war on and the travel system is important as well as how it affects the war itself. Speaking in the visual sense here, I need to be able to break down my circles. I understood I was going to have to do this, and my thoughts turned to using the stars as a mapping system like the sailors of old. I want to appeal on a more traditional fantasy level too. So I though I would ask you guys what you considered traditional and what you enjoyed seeing in literature, movies, and such? What kinds of things do you feel break suspension of disbelief?

:roll: On another side note: In another forum on DA I listed another topic centering on my magic system too, talking about working the artwork side of it. I just want to ask you guys' your thoughts on this. I had a person literally tell me I needed to make it accurate and not just mix and match religions and cultures that it is offensive and what not. They told me I needed to make it appeal to pagans too. **Am I missing something?** My target market is nerds not pagans, and I feel following such advise is silly. Besides, I don't mean to be rude in pointing out the hypocrisy here but paganism is a giant buffet of other religions... I can't even take it seriously. A lot of which is Christian and middle eastern and with neo pagans Asian too. Half of the people I knew in high school that were into that couldn't even practice their religions correctly... So my thought as to why I find this silly... Is I thought fantasy was that, just fantasy. I thought the idea was to mix and match and create different cultures and worlds? **Is this realism thing a new trend?** To make things so real and accurate as to suck the fun out of it? And of the appropriation topic...I don't care for politics myself, and yet again its getting dragged in... I don't know what the new trends in fantasy are, but I fully plan on writing my story my way, and is it wrong for me to not give a flying hoot about the A word? Honestly everyone takes/borrows from everyone at sometime, and for cultures to get offended over certain things to me seems ridiculous. Like for example here: not saying which country, but the hot topic of a certain type of jewelry and how its insulting for people in white society to wear it. How its supposed to be sacred and such. If they considered it sacred in the first place then they wouldn't have been selling it and exploiting it for gain. Am I right? (A certain actress in this country was trying to profit off of the sacred jewelry in the fashion industry. If anything they should have shut it down.) We've been doing this for centuries. In the ancient world people were trying like mad to stretch trade out so they could sell their silks and jewelry trinkets. Our fashion influences their fashion and vise versa. It would be rude and wrong for me to go around telling non-white people they aren't allowed to wear denim... or how pagans have stolen our cross and have de-sanctified it. The very notion is laughable. People will do what they do. So whats up with all this? I don't want to chase market trends, it seem to be a dumb idea and many a person tells you not to do that, because its a futile attempt and a waste of time. Is it just me, or does this kind of crap happen to you guys during the research phase too?

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