Rejection?

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kris0707
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Re: Rejection?

Postby kris0707 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:10 pm

Ostarella - I have heard that self-publishing can get pretty expensive which worries me a bit. Honestly, I probably shouldn't be worrying about publishing so much since I'm not yet done with my story anyway, but getting published seems like such a daunting task. It's hard not to think about it at all ahead of time. Admittedly, I was thinking of self-publishing for my first book just because everyone has to start somewhere, but if it's really as difficult as trad publishing, I might as well go for it.

Brien Sz - You say you are self-published? Did you self-publish on Amazon and how expensive did it get? 2500 copies is great! Congrats on that. =)

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ostarella
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Re: Rejection?

Postby ostarella » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:26 pm

kris0707 wrote:
> getting
> published seems like such a daunting task.


Writing can be pretty daunting - but you're doing it, one step at a time. :)
"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

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Brien Sz
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Re: Rejection?

Postby Brien Sz » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:52 am

It was not expensive for me at all. It can be. If you pay editors - that can cost. I did not pay. Thankfully I have someone who is great at pointing out those errors and such. It can cost a lot for a cover design. Mine did not. I paid $30 for a photo on iPhoto (stock company) for use up to 500,000 copies - I'll cross that bridge should I sell more than that. After purchasing the photo, I did my own layout of the book. Simple is usually best. The only thing it cost was my time. I know someone who paid for her cover - cost her a couple hundred dollars. So the answer to your question is really... how much can you do on your own? My book cost me thirty dollars in an outlay of revenue - the rest was my own sweat and blood.

Also, I used a template for my layout that CreateSpace provides.

RobTheThird
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Re: Rejection?

Postby RobTheThird » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:24 am

Brien Sz wrote:
> It was not expensive for me at all. It can be. If you pay editors - that
> can cost. I did not pay. Thankfully I have someone who is great at
> pointing out those errors and such. It can cost a lot for a cover design.
> Mine did not. I paid $30 for a photo on iPhoto (stock company) for use up
> to 500,000 copies - I'll cross that bridge should I sell more than that.
> After purchasing the photo, I did my own layout of the book. Simple is
> usually best. The only thing it cost was my time. I know someone who paid
> for her cover - cost her a couple hundred dollars. So the answer to your
> question is really... how much can you do on your own? My book cost me
> thirty dollars in an outlay of revenue - the rest was my own sweat and
> blood.
>
> Also, I used a template for my layout that CreateSpace provides.

Just a quick reminder to pay yourself, too.

When a corporation comes up with a product, the cost that they calculate isn't just the materials, or capital expenditures. They also account for the time to research and test the device, the payroll costs to build it, the marketing expenses, INCLUDING the time, travel, and media costs.

A lot of individuals working for themselves forget to look at their own work as a cost of what they are doing. Editing, writing, cover design, marketing, printing, that's time. YOUR time. A realistic assessment of the financial success of a book should account for that.

T.A.Rodgers
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Re: Rejection?

Postby T.A.Rodgers » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:20 am

Good point Rob. Come tax time you need to account for all of your time, which will greatly reduce or even eliminate what you have to pay Uncle Sam.

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ostarella
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Re: Rejection?

Postby ostarella » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:26 am

RobTheThird wrote:
>
> Just a quick reminder to pay yourself, too.
>
> When a corporation comes up with a product, the cost that they calculate isn't just
> the materials, or capital expenditures. They also account for the time to research
> and test the device, the payroll costs to build it, the marketing expenses, INCLUDING
> the time, travel, and media costs.
>
> A lot of individuals working for themselves forget to look at their own work as a
> cost of what they are doing. Editing, writing, cover design, marketing, printing,
> that's time. YOUR time. A realistic assessment of the financial success of a book
> should account for that.

This is something that was drummed into us when I took classes from the SBA. People would come up with their business plan and the instructor would come back with "Okay, you're working for ten cents an hour. Can you really live on that?". Granted, most writers don't live off their writing anyway, but we shouldn't just give our work away either.

The other thing to bear in mind is "opportunity cost" - what else could you be doing with that time and money? For me, that's time spent actually writing, a major reason I decided not to go the SP route.

In no way am I saying don't self-publish. Some people do it successfully and love the process. But you definitely want to consider all aspects before starting out.
"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

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Brien Sz
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Re: Rejection?

Postby Brien Sz » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:21 pm

I have my tax write offs mostly accounted for.

Since I have three books out - two under one name and the third under another, the time I put in (aside from the writing) was mostly - What is my book cover idea? Once I had that, the execution wasn't that hard. Like I said, my one book I used a stock photo and did the graphic art - not terribly time consuming once I had the vision of what I wanted. The second, I used one of my own photo's and the design from there was simple. The third took a little more time. I needed a prop. Then in Photoshop, create blood. I watched several tutorials on YouTube on how to do this in Photoshop, which I am pretty good at, then work at the technique until I achieved what I wanted.

Also, when venturing into self publishing, you have no idea what will come of it. You can draw up many plans for success but it doesn't mean the public will bite. Since income from my books is really dessert to our family income, the time I put into it flows from passion and chance. Should I be so fortunate as to accumulate significant income, then I will adhere to more stringent business practices. Right now, I do not look at the ledger in such a way that my self worth in time outweighs the effort I am putting in. If that was the case, none of us would write because the sweat equity would most likely far outweigh the financial return.

I still harbor dreams of traditional publishing as an ultimate goal. However, after canvassing and querying agents for more than a year on two of my books, I opted to see what I could catch on my own. One of them, thankfully, does okay. My third book that I wrote under, still, another alias, is a collection of short stories having nothing to do with the horror genre that the other two are in.

kris0707
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Re: Rejection?

Postby kris0707 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:42 am

Ostarella - Yeah, writing has proven to be a challenge all it's own, but it's a fun and satisfying process. Well worth it lol.

Brien Sz - I do have some family members who are teachers so perhaps that could work in my favor, but I do think I may have to pay a bit for a cover. It could help me to look at a few how to videos on youtube, but I don't know. Lol, I always end up unsatisfied with my own work on Photoshop so I see it more likely for me to pay for a cover. That's cool it only cost you thirty dollars. =)

RobTheThird - Huh, I'd pay myself, but honestly, I think I'm taking more time on this than I should or the average person so I'd hate to overprice something lol.

I don't see myself being able to trad publish my first story because it may turn out to be a Novella and it'll be LGBT. It isn't quite Non-fiction, but it's about 90% a true story. This would be easier self-published, wouldn't it? I've heard both Novellas and LGBT are hard to find publishers for.

T.A.Rodgers
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Re: Rejection?

Postby T.A.Rodgers » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:41 am

Novellas may be harder to place, but LGBT is in big demand these days. Anything with diverse characters is in big demand.

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wdarcy
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Re: Rejection?

Postby wdarcy » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:38 pm

What Terry said. Novellas are very difficult to place with a traditional publisher, as even Steven King found out in his early years. But many agents are hungry for narratives featuring diverse characters. I see that all the time from agents who sign up for ThrillerFest's PitchFest.

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"Wagner's 'Das Rheingold'" (Oxford 1993). Winner of the Society for Music Theory's Wallace Berry Award, 1995.

"Elements of Sonata Theory" co-authored with James Hepokoski(Oxford 2006). Winner of the Society for Music Theory's Wallace Berry Award, 2008.

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