Outline vs. Just Start Writing

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noobienieuw
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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby noobienieuw » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:08 pm

RobTheThird wrote:
> I like this video from YouTube:
>
> https://youtu.be/YEZaE4-6MHs
>
> Watch it. Watch the apparent randomness. Watch the final outcome. Then
> think about what it took to make that happen.
>
> That, for me, is writing. The appearance of chaos that is actually the
> product of real work.


I have to think the performer in your link was especially skilled and knew how to make that image emerge including how to sketch out what was to be eliminated when he threw the white powdery stuff at the canvas; and that if we tried to do it the results would not be nearly as good.

Chaos theory shows that stability can emerge at times from apparently complete randomness.
Systems engineering departments teach that it emerges better with planning.

If you just want *something* good then you can try randomness.
There are other techniques to help with creativity if that is what is needed to move forward.
If you want something with specific characteristics then planning usually helps.
I guess that most of us would be happy to finish any novel and be able to say it was good.

Personally, I would use randomness at times to help make decisions and move things along.
And then combining that with focused planning to guide the direction I would like it to move.

In particular getting the plotline idea initially would be a perfect place to try random things to see what clicks. Then toss the bad ideas.
For me then using other creative techniques for ideas of scenes to implement the log line makes more sense than just writing to see where it all ends up.
YMMV.

There are online generators. I got this one in about a minute using one. I think this is one to be tossed, but might help jumpstart your thinking.

Random Random
An original screenplay concept by Author, The

Science Fiction:A computer hacker teams up with a unemployed writer to find kidnapped daughter.
As the story unfolds, the computer hacker doesn't want to rescue with a computer hacker.
By the finale, they manage to hijack 6 computer networks, recover the child unharmed and win the respect of computer hackers.
Think Titanic meets Forest Gump.


Here is a related idea one person uses that is counter intuitive to conventional wisdom.
http://blog.bookbaby.com/2018/05/look-for-ideas-in-all-the-wrong-places/

And this one http://blog.bookbaby.com/2018/03/what-writing-rules-do-you-live-by/
about writing rules says
" Writing is a complex matter, covers a huge range of subjects, and there are as many ways to write as there are writers.
Each author writes differently, is at a different stage in his/her career, and has unique writing goals. Hence, floods of “rules.” "

Whatever floats your boat.
One size fits nobody.

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ostarella
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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby ostarella » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:50 pm

noobienieuw wrote:

"there are as many ways to write as there are writers"



That is the Truth, right there.

And quite frankly, no matter how perfect the system a writer has developed for themselves, there inevitably comes a book that simply will not be written that way. I haven't come up against mine yet, but I'm sure it's out there, lying in wait...
"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby noobienieuw » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:49 pm

ostarella wrote:
> noobienieuw wrote:
>
> "there are as many ways to write as there are writers"
>
>
>
> That is the Truth, right there.
>
> And quite frankly, no matter how perfect the system a writer has developed
> for themselves, there inevitably comes a book that simply will not be
> written that way. I haven't come up against mine yet, but I'm sure it's out
> there, lying in wait...

One size fits nobody.

Big books, small books; fiction, non-fiction; scripts, novels; use the tool that works best for the actual job.

Shorty3.0
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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby Shorty3.0 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:39 pm

bkawriter wrote:
> I'm new, to both this site and to writing, so forgive me if this has
> already been asked. Do more people here get started by doing an outline, as
> so many books recommend, or do most just start writing as if it's the final
> product then revise as needed? Curious to hear what the "real
> world" does.

Ditto to what has been said in this thread in the big picture answer: follow your gut, dig in, if it doesn't work try another method. Several years ago, the prof of the article writing clas I was taking had us submit an outline as part of the process, and I struggled with that in my writing "process" because of my natural bent of finding a yarn to write about and just seeing where it takes me. Whatever works best for you, trust yourself and your inner writer that you'll find it sooner than later. Then...hang on and don't let go, it can be a fun but wild ride along your writing journey :)
-Diana

noobienieuw
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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby noobienieuw » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:47 pm

Shorty3.0 wrote:
Several years ago, the prof of
> the article writing class I was taking had us submit an outline as part of the
> process, and I struggled with that in my writing "process" because of my
> natural bent of finding a yarn to write about and just seeing where it takes me.

I suspect that most people never think about their real process. Whatever they do , they just do it.
Pantsers know they pants. But do plotters know how they plot? Or do they have a process they just do without thinking about how they do it.

I worked on process for businesses so I know how my process works - sort of. At least better than most folks really understand their process.

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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby Oldtimer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:22 am

I used to write a brief outline from start of story to the end, but now write in chunks. Usually I finish with the same ending, but once or twice I've arrived at a completely different conclusion.
One thing I have noticed is that, on the occasions when I seem to be stuck, there is usually a good reason for my lack of progress. My subconscious is telling me I've overlooked something. Once I realize what that is, it's full steam ahead to the next chapter.
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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby rob-lost » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:20 am

Oldtimer wrote:
> I used to write a brief outline from start of story to the end, but now
> write in chunks. Usually I finish with the same ending, but once or twice
> I've arrived at a completely different conclusion.
> One thing I have noticed is that, on the occasions when I seem to be stuck,
> there is usually a good reason for my lack of progress. My subconscious is
> telling me I've overlooked something. Once I realize what that is, it's
> full steam ahead to the next chapter.
As I understand it, that's a major component to why quite a few authors say that writer's block does not exist. It's not like it just stops. There's usually something more to it.

I don't actually want to reignite that debate. It's just an intriguing thought to consider.
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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby noobienieuw » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:11 pm

> As I understand it, that's a major component to why quite a few authors say that
> writer's block does not exist. It's not like it just stops. There's usually
> something more to it.

I wonder if writers block is always the true case and sometimes just another name for procrastination.

There are many causes of procrastination. One is fear of failure.
Could some writers be afraid what they do won't be 'good enough', or that it will be rejected, or .... ??

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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby ostarella » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:17 pm

noobienieuw wrote:

>
> I wonder if writers block is always the true case and sometimes just another name for
> procrastination.
>
> There are many causes of procrastination. One is fear of failure.
> Could some writers be afraid what they do won't be 'good enough', or that it will be
> rejected, or .... ??

JMO, but I think most of the time it's not a block as much as it's a speed bump. People tend to think they should be able to solve a problem immediately, and when they can't, they give up. Most the time, they just need to step away for a bit and let the brain get past the frustration.
"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

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Re: Outline vs. Just Start Writing

Postby noobienieuw » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:30 pm

ostarella wrote:

> JMO, but I think most of the time it's not a block as much as it's a speed bump.
> People tend to think they should be able to solve a problem immediately, and when
> they can't, they give up.

I can see that once they started and are having problems.

But what about starting?
Even spotting them a perfectly round 'tuit' many people would still stare at a blank page and do nothing.
The excuse would be writer's block.
The real reason might be not knowing how to plan and organise, else it might be procrastination caused by fear of rejection when they finished pantsing.

In the middle you are probably correct. They gave up at the speedbump.

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